Episode 46: Soul Chats with Josh Decker

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In this episode of Soul Chats, we welcome Josh Decker to the hot seat to talk about overwhelm and burnout and how to discover the reasons we get there and the steps to harnessing the power of awareness to avoid the crash and burn.

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SOUL CHATS WITH JOSH DECKER

LET’S MEET JOSH DECKER

I am so excited to introduce a fantastic man and wizard of helping feel their feelings to get out of deadly burnout, Josh Decker. He has led high-level business leaders and facilitated workshops worldwide, teaching his concepts of how we get burnout and how to get out. Josh's wisdom and expertise are awe-inspiring and life-changing, moving effortlessly from corporate settings to working one-on-one with individuals.

We will discuss posturing, collapsing, and the sweet spot and their relationship to recognizing burnout as we live a spiritual experience in the human body. We will learn to recognize when we are on the verge of burnout, what phase of burnout we might be in and how to shift from burnout to peaceful non-resistance of surrender.

WHAT IS BURNOUT?

Most of us have experienced burnout, and many of us stay in a perpetual state of feeling overwhelmed and deleted. But what is burnout, and how do we find ourselves in this predicament?

“Burnout goes hand in hand with exhaustion and overwhelm. Once you start noticing these two symptoms, you can begin facing the onset of burnout without it being this ominous. Yes, there can be a lot of things going on that can be challenging, yet there is a way we can look at it without the heaviness, density, and stuckness that can lead to this burnout. We can bring a lightness and freedom to the conversation that allows the freedom of being able to come out of it.” - Josh Decker

The last thing you want to experience when you are on the verge of burnout or in the middle of burnout is to try and process all the reasons you might be experiencing it. It’s liberating to permit yourself to tackle this issue without making it another thing you’re adding to the never-ending list of things to do. Exploring the reasons behind feeling burnt out can be gentle, exciting, and even fun!

THE SIGNS OF BURNOUT

When we are burnt out, we know we are burnt out. It can be difficult to pinpoint why or even find the words to describe the feeling of depletion and exhaustion we are experiencing, but when we are at the end of our capacity to keep on, we know it’s time to take a look at what’s going on.

“A lot of the signs are sometimes easy to identify and hard to admit, and then some of the signs are hard to identify and even harder to admit. It does take a degree of vulnerability. When we become overwhelmed, exhausted, and burned out, we start to lose touch with how we really feel and go into some kind of survival mechanism. We can also go back to a subconscious patterning that allowed us to manage those emotions in the past. Overcompensation is a prime example of this patterning.

“In the workplace, from eight-figure earning business owners, all the way down to the customer care positions will begin to see the signs of burnout in one of two ways: overcompensation with doing even more than they are, or an overcompensation by stepping out of your role or position to assist others beyond the scope of your responsibilities.” - Josh Decker

Even when we want to, or need to, say no, we often say yes to far more than we can handle, leading to a cascading effect of even more burnout!

CAUGHT IN THE CYCLE

The flip side of overcompensation is to detach, to pull away from the people and situation, and find fault in those around you. Subtle judgments, complaints, and feeling like you are the victim of others can lead to a vicious cycle of disempowerment. Catching the cycle and looking at the overwhelm with a curious mind is the first step in breaking out of the burnout patterning.

“One of the most important things is the willingness to be self-aware and admit:

‘Wow, I’m feeling overwhelmed here!’
‘Wow, this is too much!’

I have found that so many silence these early warning systems because they’re trying to protect an image of someone who has it all together and is someone that others want to listen to and be led by. When we find value and fulfillment in ‘saving the day’ and want to protect that image, we can move into a position that’s not in alignment with our core being and subtly begins to water down who we are. This pulls us out of alignment in a way that actually leads us into a deadly burnout cycle.” - Josh Decker

It is essential to recognize that we can get stuck in this cycle without seeing it happen in real time. Suppose you are the person who is always picking up the pieces in your relationships, always on call to save the day in any situation, and the person everyone depends on. In that case, you might be on the verge of or in the middle of burnout, more often than you are not. You must take care of yourself, even before everyone else, because burnout can be deadly. Burnout comes at the cost of your health, and without your health, you don’t have anything.

CHECK THE EXPIRATION DATE

Burnout shows up in so many different ways, and some of those things feel impossible to change. We have to work. Work provides for our family, so if you aren’t constantly in go mode, you can also feel overwhelmed on that level. But it's not sustainable if you show up in a way that leaves you exhausted, burnt out, and dying inside.

Being good at something doesn’t mean you’re meant to do it forever. Everything has a shelf life, even the things that used to be your biggest passion. As you evolve, you will have to look for the expiration date on the things in your life that are directly causing you to live on the edge of burnout.

“This is not just about our physical health, but our mental and emotional health. It’s easy to recognize the physical symptoms as they crop up, but those symptoms are actually showing up on the mental and emotional levels before we see them physically. I have worked with incredibly successful people who had it all. Their business was great, and their personal lives and relationships were fine. Then suddenly, they’ve dropped the business, their relationships are falling apart, and they just feel done. These are incredibly skilled and caring people, with so much to offer, but this burnout cycle eventually catches up and crumbles all the foundation of everything they had built in their life.” - Josh Decker

Looking at what is going on emotionally and mentally as you start to notice, “Wow, I am feeling really exhausted,” is how you keep yourself from going past the expiration date on those areas of your life that aren’t working anymore. You take these things off the self and allow yourself to create a new experience, more aligned to the life you want to live.

MAKING THE SHIFT

In this life, we are built to use our creativity as we go through the chapters of our lives and find solutions are our problems within that creative space. But sometimes, the overwhelm is so heavy that we can’t navigate ourselves into the creative solution, and we need to shift things to find that clarity.

“The effects of burnout cycle can make it hard to have the clarity to identify and assess if the choices we are making are the right ones or not. So if we do see that metaphoric spoiled carton of milk in the fridge, we might not throw it out. We might give it one more day!” - Josh Decker

It's hard to admit when you've outgrown something, or it's completed. When we don’t do that, things can get rather serious in how we are feeling and if we can recognize the signals that we’re on the edge of burnout. Josh has some fantastic tools to help shift out of that place and move out of burnout and into peace.

“This is the thing I love the most. In facing the deadly cycle of burnout, there are five fundamental shifts that have to occur to begin to turn that tide and to be able to come out of burnout. This isn’t just a personal issue; it’s crossed all industries. No matter what position you are in, there is a sickness in society we call burnout. I have seen how costly this burnout patterning is and the quality of life it takes from remarkable people.

One of my favorite and most powerful shifts is finding the sweet spot. When we examine what place we are in within the burnout cycle, there are one of three places we can be. I call these posturing, collapse, and sweet spot. From this skill alone, I've seen so many come back and say that this has shifted their life in dramatic ways.’ - Josh Decker

POSTURING

“Anytime you're facing a deadly burnout cycle, there are only three ways the human system can respond. The first one is to posture. This is what I call ‘forcing self,’ It often shows up as a person learning forward in their body or being more direct in their communication.

These people who fall into posturing during burnout tend to be attached to the idea of themselves as leaders, and someone others should listen to. This can manifest as being pushy and thinking more about the future than the past or present.” - Josh Decker

Some signals you are posturing:

  • A raised voice during communication.
  • As a normally calm and agreeable person, a deadline or other pressure changes your personality.
  • Finding fault or making complaints about a situation without offering a possible solution.

We can all recognize a time when we’ve done this. It’s a normal reaction to facing sudden pressure, looming deadlines, or things just not going as planned. Recognizing these signals can assist you in heading off full-on burnout!

COLLAPSE

The second way we respond to burnout is to collapse or “lose self.” It can manifest as burying yourself in work, household chores, projects, or any other busy activity that allows you to ignore what you are feeling and face it head-on.

“This is really around the effect of taking on so much of other people's things and intentions and navigating them. There's so much outward focus that who you are can get lost entirely. Collapse happens from people carrying so much and spreading themselves so thin that eventually, they lose contact with who they are, what matters, and what they need. They'll skip meals, they will work extra hours, and they won't take breaks or vacations.

While in collapse, your inner voice can convince you that you have to take care of everyone else before you take care of yourself and that you have to do it alone. I’ve seen it time and time again, and it’s not something bad or wrong. We’ve actually all been somewhere on the spectrum of collapse at some point in our lives.” - Josh Decker

THE SWEET SPOT

If we are being honest with ourselves, most of us can pinpoint times in our lives where we’ve either postured, collapsed, or done both at the same time. But somewhere between falling back or pummeling forward is what Josh calls the Sweet Spot.

“The third one is what I call the sweet spot. So we can posture forward or collapse backward, but right in between is where everything seems clearer and comes a little more effortlessly. It's easier to know what I need and communicate that and to know what I can and cannot take on. It’s moving from scrambling to put out 20 little fires over and over to putting out the one really big fire that is actually the problem. From the sweet spot, we're able to not only mentally and physically perceive what's going on, but we can energetically with our heart perceive not just what's going on but who we are in the center of all of this movement that we call life.” - Josh Decker

SIT WITH IT

How can we get to that sweet spot? Part of the sweet spot is energetically feeling into where that happy medium is where you find balance. It’s all too easy to run away from your feelings or to run away from a truth you have to admit. Being human is hard. One minute you could be posturing and the next collapsing. But you can always work towards moving out of both and into the sweet spot.

“What is so brilliant about us as humans, though, is it can be so hard, and yet whenever I'm willing just to be me and be present with whether I'm in posture or collapse if I just allow myself to notice my thoughts, be in my body and feel my emotions I naturally start to go into my sweet spot.” - Josh Decker

There's no magic trick. It’s as simple as being with yourself, sitting with yourself, and permitting yourself to feel your feeling. What if you don’t want to feel those feelings or don’t know where to start?

“One of the things that I know is that most people are conditioned to be in their minds more than in their bodies or their heart, and more in our bodies than our hearts. One of the quickest ways to get into the heart is to soften and allow that energy to run through us.” - Josh Decker

EMOTIONS ARE ENERGY

Sitting with our feelings can be uncomfortable and even terrifying. Sometimes our emotions are so intense that it feels like we are dying or wish we were. We can convince ourselves that they will drown us if we sit with our emotions and examine them. So we collapse instead of facing those feelings.

“Our systems are saying, like, ‘Hey, this is a lot.’ But, I know this intelligence, this heart, has the capacity to identify, hold and move massive amounts of emotion. And emotions are just energy, and it's based on whether we're postured or collapsed or in a sweet spot that gives us a different perspective of that energy. So I might be frustrated and getting into anger, yet that same energy, once I breathe in, soften and allow that energy to run through, it's like, ‘Oh, wait, no, it's just a lot of energy circulating, coursing through me. This comes from a place where something matters to me. I'm getting frustrated and angry because something deeply matters to me.’ And now I can be in my sweet spot because I'm in touch with it!’ - Josh Decker

When you are afraid to investigate those big emotions, it’s an invitation to explore what matters to you and how it’s being honored in a way that aligns with your purpose. You can turn that negative into a positive!

“What I've noticed time and time again is every negative emotion, or my perception of negative emotion, is a signpost. It's like telling me, ‘Hey, look at me, look at me, feel me, pay attention to me.’ And whenever I receive that invitation, it leads me to the opposite side of the coin, from the negative to the positive.” - Josh Decker

POSITIVE, NEGATIVE, OR NEUTRAL?

When we look at the different aspects of posturing or collapsing coming up for us, we get a further understanding. As you are interacting with the world, are you posturing or collapsing? Are you finding neutrality in the situation? How do you show up in any particular moment and react to the person, situation, or experience?

“Though I don’t see them this way, let’s say posture is positive and collapse is negative, but sweet spot is neutrality. And when I use the word neutral, I don’t mean that we are unfeeling robots, but neutral in that at any given point, we're going to have positive and negative perceptions of ourselves, of others, of our environments, of our partners, or our co-workers. The more we can find that balance and not try to lean so heavily towards only having positive or ‘good’ experiences while avoiding the ‘negative’ ones, the more growth we’ll see. We’re supposed to be human, imperfect, and not always light. We have so many aspects of self, and that’s what I call being human.” - Josh Decker

How we perceive a situation is personal. Even a “negative” experience can be positive for personal growth. Even the most challenging days can be character-building. We are spiritual beings having a human experience!

COLLATERAL DAMAGE

So you are driving, someone comes way too close when cutting you off, and then you notice that person is texting while driving. This can and probably will evoke an emotional reaction. You have a right to be angry. Your safety is at risk. Do you posture? Or do you collapse? Do you become enraged and stay in that energy all day? Or perhaps you feel into the fear and stay in that for the rest of the day. Neither are healthy. If you remain in that energy all day, you risk spreading that negativity to those around you who had no part in initiating the emotional response you are experiencing.

“It's not about not being angry, frustrated, sad, disappointed, overwhelmed, or whatever it is. It's about being in choice of how we're going to be in relationship with it. Asking yourself, ‘Wow, why am I in this?’ brings a curiosity to the moment to examine the why behind the feeling. Someone texting and driving, risking lives, can make you angry. That’s natural. But when we get into a posturing position, we can cycle in that for the rest of the day. It comes out in little ways to our kids, partners, people we are working with, or even the barista preparing our coffee. We spread our overwhelm to them, drawing them into our cycle, and now they are in our experience through no fault of their own. It's so easy for us to spin and let that one justified moment of frustration propel us into this negative cycle.” - Josh Decker

We can quickly spiral out of control with this posturing and collapsing and then take it out on everyone around us. I call these character-building days. We have a choice in these moments to drop in and get curious, so we can address it without allowing it to affect those around us for the rest of the day.

BRINGING IN AWARENESS

You don't have to be positive all the time. It’s okay to be mad. It is okay to be angry. What's not okay is if you sit in that anger all day every day because that's not healthy. A key component in tackling burnout is to bring in the awareness that not everything is positive. It's from that space of not being inflated or deflated that you can find a grounded position to identify where you are at and what you can actively do to move out of burnout.

“Posturing and collapsing can create this cycle of burnout that we can get caught in where we just spin and spin. I know many people reading this have had days where they feel it. ‘I'm so sick of thinking about this thing and continuing, yet I'm still doing it. Why can't I let go of this?’ But just as powerful is the sweet spot. Once we begin to allow ourselves to be frustrated, disappointed, or whatever it is and hold that, ‘Oh, I'm just posturing or collapsing right now. Can I just let myself be there for a moment?’ we naturally return to the sweet spot. That awareness of the cycle is what breaks the cycle.” - Josh Decker

Once you become aware you are posturing or collapsing, take a moment to examine:

“Oh, wow, I am doing this.”
“Why am I doing this?”
“What next?”

“The awareness naturally comes up, and you can see that you're postured or collapsing, which naturally gives you the ability to come back into that sweet spot. It becomes stronger and stronger until, in my belief, nothing can take you out of your sweet spot.” - Josh Decker

CHOOSING A NEW YOU

Bad things happen to people in this thing called life. We can use those negative experiences to become a victim or to become enlightened and more in tune with ourselves. We can hold ourselves back or propel ourselves forward. Every day we have a choice.

“You can kind of use it as an excuse. It may be an unconscious excuse, and you may not be doing it on purpose, but there is an excuse going on. I know that no one would choose these things, and they aren’t inherently bad or wrong. They all come from good places, have good intentions, and probably served well at one time. But you can choose to say no to this and choose a new identity.” - Josh Decker

It can be hard to find a new you if you’ve had something terrible happen to you because, after a traumatic event, we can allow it to become our identity. You can remain in anger, depression, and frustration for years, but that identity is no longer serving you. It is okay to break up with that version of yourself and the aspects it brings to your life that no longer serve your highest good. You can start ripping off the layers of that false identity that’s no longer who you are.

“Exactly. I hear you giving people permission to say, ‘Hey, if this isn't serving you any longer, let's not do this anymore.’ I really do think that this hits on that identification level of wanting to be seen, heard, and known in certain ways. You're hitting on the core of where these come from, and that’s projection. There's nothing wrong with posturing or collapsing. It's actually necessary. If we're only in one or two at any given moment, it's hard to see, but if we can see three points of posture collapse and sweet spot, all of a sudden, it opens up our ability to see and make choices that are different.” - Josh Decker

Ultimately, choosing a new you means choosing freedom, peace, and growth. Any aspect of you that is no longer in alignment with your journey can be released as soon as you decide to release it!

A SPECIAL OFFER

Josh is amazing, and he's really good at just holding space. His ability to help heal masculine wounds when working with women is phenomenal. He is the most sensitive, kind, and stellar human being. He works with both men and women to develop a strategy out of burnout, and for our listeners, he is offering a free one-on-one strategy call!

“I love this conversation, and I'm dedicated to this conversation. The opportunity to talk, share and be of service is truly an honor. I would like to extend an offer to your listeners: a Change Your Burnout Paradigm strategy call. We will discuss the other four fundamental shifts you'll need to start to turn the tide of this deadly burnout cycle. We’ll also talk about your exact burnout cycle. We're going to identify your custom burnout cycle, and then I'm going to give you the first two or three steps to come out of that burnout cycle.” - Josh Decker

To book your free call with Josh and learn about your unique burnout cycle, please visit: https://go.oncehub.com/RevitalizedLiving

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Full transcription of the episode:

Hey everyone. I am so excited for our soul chats special guest. His name is Josh Decker. He is a great friend of mine. I absolutely adore this man. He is a wizard of feeling emotions and assisting others in feeling their emotions as well. He's an expert in helping people get out of deadly burnout. He also has experience and expertise in business organization, training, and communication in the workplace. He has led high-level business leaders, and facilitated workshops all around the world, supporting people from all walks of life in both private and corporate settings. In this soul chat, we talk about burnout. We talk about an amazing way that you can shift out of burnout. We also talk about some posturing and collapsing and so much more. I'm so excited to share this special, special podcast with you. And let's get started. I hope you enjoy!

Amy: Hello, everyone. I am so excited for today's episode. We're doing a soul chat with Josh Decker today. Hi, Josh. How are you?

Josh: I'm wonderful, thank you. How are you?

Amy: I'm good. I'm so excited to have you on the show. You are an expert at burnout and I think that this is a very amazing topic to talk about because I think most of us have experienced or are currently experiencing burnout. Can you tell me what your take on burnout is and how people find themselves in this predicament?

Josh: Yeah. Thank you. Well, one, I know that it can be a heavy conversation to bring in the conversation of burnout because hand in hand with burnout comes exhaustion and overwhelm. And these are two of the symptoms that you can begin facing before really facing the effects of full-on burnout. And what I'll say is there's also a way that we don't have to hold it so heavy and it doesn't have to be so ominous. And what I like to say is, yeah, there's lots of things that are going on that can be challenging, and yet there is a way we can look at it and have fun in a way that actually begins to come out of whatever this heaviness, this density, this stuckness, that can lead into this burnout. And so that's the first thing I'd like to say, is, yeah, it can be a heavy conversation and we can have that conversation in a way that brings a lightness to it and brings the freedom of being able to come out of it.

Amy: And how liberating is that? Because the last thing, if you're on the verge of burnout or if you're in the middle of burnout, the last thing you want is something extremely heavy to process to try to get yourself out of it. And I also think it's hard for people to even admit sometimes that they're on the verge or they're currently in burnout. What would you say to people like that? What are the signs of if you're on the verge of burnout or if you're in burnout?

Josh: Yeah, so a lot of the signs are sometimes easy to identify and hard to admit, and then some of the signs are hard to identify and even harder to admit. And so it does take a degree of vulnerability. And that's one of the things I find is whenever we become overwhelmed and exhausted and burned out, we start to lose touch with how we really feel and we'll go into some kind of survival mechanism or some kind of subconscious patterning that has us be able to manage whatever the overwhelm or the exhaustion is that's going on in a way that brings out, let's say, overcompensation. All the way from eight-figure business owners to customer care positions will begin to see signs in one of two ways. It's either an overcompensation by doing more or it's an overcompensation with holding more, with carrying more weight. And some of the ways this can look at is that you'll do things that are not your role or position, but you're like, "I'll just go ahead and take this on to help them out. And because this project has to get done, so I'm just going to take this on."

Amy: Even though the person really wants to say no and they don't have the capacity to take it on.

Josh: Exactly. And without even thinking about that, because this type of person really wants to take on a lot of whatever's going to lead to burnout, yet they're looking outside and like, "Oh, I'm going to take this on so that I'm not going to lead to burnout." And then the other side is to detach, pull away and tell everyone else all the things that they're doing that's making things exhausting.

Amy: I see that. Yeah.

Josh: And so a lot of times it'll come out in really subtle judgments, complaints.

Amy: Would you call that like the victim cycle? Like they're in victimhood of their own chaos that they're in.

Josh: Yeah, I think you could name it that. What I see it as is it's just someone dealing with overwhelm in a way that they get caught in a cycle.

Amy: I think we all get caught in a cycle of different things like this.

Josh: And so one of the most important things that I've seen is just the willingness to one, be aware and admit in a way that, "Wow, I'm feeling overwhelmed here," or, "Wow, this is too much." And what I find is they silenced the voice, that more quiet voice that's like, "Oh, this is too much." And this other voice that's trying to protect an image or that like has it all together, or it is the one everyone wants to listen to and follow or the one that is always saving the day and we want to protect this image. And so then we'll move into a position that is not actually in alignment with who we are at our core and it subtly begins to water down and pull us out of alignment in a way that actually leads us into this deadly burnout cycle.

Amy: I like that you kind of highlighted how someone can just kind of get stuck in a trap, in a cycle, and not even know it. I also think it's also dynamics between family and relationships where someone might also be, let's say, the savior of their family or the person that everybody leans on and that person is literally about to completely crumble and break. But everybody else has all these other fires going on and so who are you to stop and take care of yourself if everybody else has everything else going on? But at the end of the day, we got to take care of ourselves, which is so important. And I love that you call it like a deadly burnout cycle because it is deadly. It's the cost of our health. And if you don't have your health, you don't have anything.

Josh: Well, and not just our physical health, but our mental and emotional health. And I think it's easy to be like, "Oh, this is affecting my physical health." But a lot of what you were talking about before, the symptoms, they're more on the mental and the emotional level before they show up in the physical realm. And you know, the types of people I've worked with and I've had incredibly successful people that they had everything. Their life looked great, and their relational personal life was amazing. The business was amazing. And then all of a sudden, within sometimes months to a year, like they've dropped the business, their relationship is falling apart and they're just done. And I've seen this time and time again and I've seen them. It's not that they're not good people. It's not that they don't care. It's not that they're not incredibly skilled and have lots of value to give it's because this burnout cycle eventually catches up and crumbles all the foundation of everything they had built in their life. And so I love that you bring it. It's not just in business. It's also in our personal lives. And we run these same exact deadly patternings in our personal life as much as we do in our work life.

Amy: And I think that they just show up in a different way and we look at them in a different way because work provides, right? Work provides for family and so if you're not doing these things in your business or at work, how are you going to provide for your family? But inside you're dying and you're burnt out and you're tired. I know, like for me, being in the car business before, I was really good at my job. I wasn't fulfilled. I was burnt out, I was tired, I was done. And just because you're good at something doesn't mean you're meant to be doing that anymore. Everything has a shelf life. And even if you are really good at it and you love it, there's an expiration date on whatever it is that you're doing in your life and that expiration date is going to come and it's up to you to decide if it's time to take it off the shelf. But I find that if you take it off the shelf before it expires and you allow yourself to wrap your head around like, "I'm a creative being and I can start doing these different things," then you get to take that off the shelf before it expires and you don't leave it out of the shelf so it can spoil and it can go rotten and it can do all these wreak havoc in your life.

Josh: I love your metaphoric languaging. It's so perfect. I just saw my fridge. I just saw my fridge with all kinds of bad food gone bad in it and it's been sitting in there forever. Sorry to admit, but I have been there before.

Amy: Well, I think I have things that need to come out of our fridge. I think that in life we are meant to be creative beings and we go through different chapters in our life on what we're creating, what we're co-creating, what feeds our soul, what we're really into. And it's okay if you don't want to do that thing anymore and I think that that's really important.

Josh: Yeah. Thank you. The effects of burnout cycle can even be hard to have the clarity to identify and assess, to even know if that's the right choice or not, or if that's a spoiled carton of milk in the fridge or not. It's like, "Oh well, maybe we can get another day out of it."

Amy: Yeah. You know, I sometimes think that it's hard to admit when you've outgrown something or it's completed. And I think when you don't do that, that's when things start to really get serious in terms of how we're feeling. But then you miss those signals that you are burnt out or you're on the verge of burnout. I know that you have some amazing tools on how to shift out of burnout and you have a really amazing practice for shifting. Can you talk to me, talk to our listeners about that?

Josh: Yeah. Thank you. This is the thing I love the most. I love being in the conversation and I know who you are and I just respect you and knowing the people that are probably listening right now. I like giving the information, but I also like to give like that I'm hoping that each person gets not only some value of information but that at one point each person has an experience that has like an "AHA" that opens up something that they're able to see who they are and where they are in a way that they haven't been able to before.

Amy: Absolutely. And I think the "AHA" moments are like the cherry on top of the cake sometimes.

Josh: Totally. So yeah. You want me to jump into things?

Amy: Yeah, yeah!

Josh: Perfect. So what I really want to talk about today is in facing the deadly cycle of burnout, there's five fundamental shifts that have to occur in order to begin to turn that tide and to be able to come out of what I don't even think is just a personal issue. I think it's something that's crossed all industries. No matter what size of business, no matter what position you're in, there is something that is what I think is a sickness in society right now that we call burnout. And like you said it's in professional or in our personal lives. And so what I can almost guarantee you is everyone and I even get tears in my eyes whenever I talk about this because I mean I could be doing lots of things and working in a lot of different fields and yet I saw every single time how costly this burnout pattern is and the quality of life that this takes away from amazing people. And so what I want to talk to you about is my favorite and one of the most powerful shifts that you can make in order to begin to turn this tide and come out of that deadly burnout cycle. Sound good?

Amy: Yeah, absolutely!

Josh: Perfect. So with no further ado and I'm looking down at my notes once a while just to make sure I'm keeping track but the first shift and my favorite is what I call finding your sweet spot. And this to me is not only my favorite in the sense of just for myself but I've seen so many other people just from this skill alone totally come back and say that this has shifted their life in dramatic ways. And the reason why is because anytime you're facing a deadly burnout cycle there's only three ways the human system can respond. So the first one is to posture and this is what I call forcing self and literally, there's a way that people that are in a postured form will lean forward more in their body, they will direct their communications more in a forward way and so I call it forcing self. But really what I find is these types of people are attached to really being seen as a person and as a leader that people will follow and listen to. And so in that, there's a bit of where whenever I have to have everyone listen to me there's going to be a bit of a pushing.
The sign that I find in myself is I start to push, I start to think more in the future than I do in the present or the past. I'm a little bit forward in my thoughts, in my actions, and in my emotions.

Amy: I think that makes sense because I think that people do posture and would you say like volume changes, like the volume of their voice?

Josh: It very well can be. Again depending on the person.

Amy: Yeah, different types of personalities.

Josh: You can even see that sometimes they'll be really nice and sweet and then a little bit of a pressure situation come up or deadline or whatever and all of a sudden this person totally changes. And now their voice is raised, they're a little more like talking, like pointing out all the things that are wrong or that aren't working, but not really giving any suggestions on how to do it differently.

Amy: Yeah, I think would you say everyone does one of these versions at some point in time in their life? They're going to posture and you're going to share the other two, but would you say that everybody does this?

Josh: Everyone does.

Amy: Yeah. So share your other two because I'm really excited for you to share.

Josh: Sure. Absolutely. So the second way is to collapse or lose self. This is really around the effect of taking on so much and being seen so many other people's things and intentions and navigating them. There's so much focus outside that who you are gets completely lost. And the worst-case scenario is you're completely lost. And these people can have a lot of, well, these people whenever you're in collapse because you can be in a cycle and there's some people that are going to be more on the collapse side, whereas other people may be more on the posture side. And collapse happens from people carrying so much and spreading themselves so thin that eventually, they lose contact with actually who they are, what matters, what they need. So they'll skip meals, they will work extra hours, they won't take breaks, they don't take vacations. It's just like I have to take care of everyone else before I can take care of myself. I've got to do it alone. It's all on me are kind of some of the voices that we can hear whenever we're in collapse.

Amy: I think that's interesting because even though the person is collapsing inwards and the way that I always view collapse is like their shoulders start to roll forward, the chest starts to concave, there's this energetic closing of the heart to protect the heart. And how someone might show up and collapse is they just bury their head and work, or they bury their head in their household chores, or they bury their head in whatever it is that they're going to keep them busy from feeling whatever they're feeling because of everything else that's going on.

Josh: Exactly. Yeah. That is very real and I've seen it time and again, Amy. It's not something that's bad or wrong. It's actually systematically we're all somewhere on the spectrum of collapse at times in our lives.

Amy: What's the third one?

Josh: And the third one is what I call sweet spot. And so this is in between. So we can posture forward or we can collapse backward. But right in between is this place that everything seems clearer and everything comes a little more effortlessly and it's easier to communicate what it is I'm needing or even to know what I need or what I can take on and what I can't take on. Or, "Oh, I could put out these 20 fires or I could put out this one big fire that is actually spreading all these 20 fires continuously. But I'm always focused on putting out these 20 fires." And so from the sweet spot, we're able to really not only mentally perceive, and physically perceive what's going on, but we can energetically with our heart perceive not just what's going on, but who we are in the center of all of this movement that we call life.

Amy: I like that because you are a wizard of understanding and feeling into feelings. And I love that that's part of the sweet spot is energetically feeling in to where that happy medium is where you're finding balance.

Josh: Yes.

Amy: And I think that that's really important because I think oftentimes people just want to run away from their feelings or run away from having to admit the truth. And I think also for posturing and collapsing, 1 minute you could be posturing, and the next minute you could be collapsing.

Josh: Absolutely.

Amy: And it's a yoyo of emotions that are happening because it's hard. This human thing is hard!

Josh: You're so right. And this is actually what is so brilliant about us as humans, though, it can be so hard, and yet whenever I'm willing to just be me and be present with whether I'm in posture or collapse, this is the coolest thing, Amy. If I just allow myself to notice my thoughts, be in my body and feel my emotions whenever I'm in collapse, do you know what happens?

Amy: What happens, Josh?

Josh: I naturally start to go into my sweet spot.

Amy: I love it!

Josh: Without doing anything else!

Amy: Yes. There's no magic trick besides just being with yourself. But I think it's really hard for some people to be with themselves. Like, it's a really hard thing. So what would you say to someone that, I hear you, but I'm uncomfortable, I don't want to feel that, or I don't even know how to do that?

Josh: Yeah, I love it. Let's see, where would I go? One of the things that I know is that most people are conditioned to be in their minds more than in their bodies or their heart, and more in our bodies than our hearts. And what I know one of the quickest ways to get into the heart is to soften and do you mind if I go a little bit into this?

Amy: Yeah, let’s do it!

Josh: Perfect. So one of the ways to really be present and reside in these kind of uncomfortable or even terrifying, like sometimes I've experienced in myself and in others, that they've had some past emotion that has built and they're feeling it and they literally feel like they're dying.

Amy: Yeah, I was there.

Josh: It can feel that way or that you would prefer to die. What I know is that emotions can feel really big and really scary and they can feel where they're going to just overwhelm us and drown us out. It's smart because we don't want to be in collapse our whole life. So our systems are saying, like, "Hey, this is a lot." And yet what I know is the capacity of this intelligence, this heart, actually has a capacity to identify and hold and move massive amounts of emotions. And really, emotions are just energy, and it's based on whether we're postured or collapsed or in a sweet spot that actually has us have a different perspective of that energy. And so I might be really frustrated and angry and getting into anger and just like and yet that same energy, once I breathe in and soften and allow that energy to run through, it's like, "Oh, wait, no, it's just a lot of energy circulating, coursing through me."

And then it's like, oh, "It's coming from this place that something matters to me. I'm getting frustrated and angry because something deeply matters to me." And now I can be in my sweet spot because I'm in touch with, " Oh something matters to me, not, "Oh, something out there is preventing me. so I've got to posture it and make sure that this thing happens" or, "Oh, I'm all alone and I can't do this, so I'm just going to collapse, and I'll do my best, but you all just carry on, leave me behind," or whatever it is.

Amy: Yeah.

Josh: Is this landing?

Amy: Oh, of course. What I like is that you're saying, it matters to me. Something matters to me. And sometimes we might not even know what that is. You're just feeling something, that there is something that matters. What would you say to someone that's trying to identify what that thing is that matters?

Josh: Well, what I'd say is any perceived negative emotion, if you can identify by breathing into the body and feeling where is that emotion, then that's the first step.

Amy: Do you want to walk me through it so our listeners can kind of see what that looks like?

Josh: Sure, I'd love to.

Amy: I think this will be fun. And I've done this with you before, Josh, so it's kind of fun to play with it.

Josh: Totally!

Amy: Okay, so we're just going to close our eyes and breathe, right?

Josh: Yeah. Just get yourself set, present. So what's the first thing as you're breathing into your body that you notice?

Amy: I noticed my head is feeling like it's swirling. And then I notice my stomach feels like it has a little burn to it. Not something super heavy, but it has a little burn.

Josh: A little burning in the belly. And then the head was what sensation?

Amy: Swirling.

Josh: Swirling. Got it. Perfect. And so what I'd like you to do is direct your mind's focus on that little burning feeling.

Amy: Okay.

Josh: And as you're directing your focus, allow your breath to follow that focus. And what we're wanting is natural, gentle, soft breaths, as if you're inviting that little burning sensation to be there more.

Amy: Okay.

Josh: Like welcoming it. Okay.

Amy: Okay, I'm giving it a hug with my breath.

Josh: And just let me know what you're noticing.

Amy: Well, I notice the more that I just befriend the burning in my tummy, the swirling in my head disappears. It completely shuts off.

Josh: Got it. And can I ask you a question?

Amy: Sure.

Josh: The swirling in the head, was that a little bit of... In your perception, would it have that been a negative or a positive?

Amy: I would say it's more of a positive. It's like a synergy of energy that we're talking, we're chatting, we're having a good time. I don't say it like disappeared, it just kind of settled.

Josh: So it softened whenever you softened into the burning and kind of befriended it, all of a sudden this swirling energy began to soften also, not that it went away. Got it. And can you identify any emotion in your system that may even be like, more on the negative field?

Amy: Disappointment is what I'm first feeling.

Josh: And do you know where that disappointment emotion is there any place that you can feel that in your body?

Amy: Well, I feel it in my forehead. In my forehead, not necessarily the third eye, just across my forehead.

Josh: Perfect. And whenever you did it, it almost seems like there's like a line that kind of curves around.

Amy: Exactly.

Josh: Yeah. And is it like a pressure or like what's the sensation or what is the emotion?

Amy: Kind of like a heavy beanbag was across my forehead. That's kind of the sensation. A little weighted.

Josh: Yeah, there's a little bit of weight there. And so let's go ahead and breathe into that disappointment.

Amy: Okay.

Josh: And let's welcome that kind of little weighted feeling, a little bit of pressure spreading across your eyebrows.

Amy: And I notice the more that I welcome it, the more it just kind of fades away. I'm not trying to force it forward or anything like that. It just starts to dissipate.

Josh: And then if you stay with it, there's a movement to it. Right. So really just take a moment to be in that movement and give them that movement, and that's where your focus is going to be.

Amy: Okay, I can sense the movement.

Josh: And so from that point, there's a line that is going to somewhere else in your body.

Amy: Okay.

Josh: Where's the source of that movement coming from?

Amy: And you're speaking of directly from my physical body, correct?

Josh: Yeah

Amy: Yeah, it goes right back to my stomach.

Josh: Okay, perfect. And then let's breathe into that and soften into that.

Amy: Okay.

Josh: And what feeling is the main feeling that you have whenever you're softening into this?

Amy: When I soften into it, I feel peace.

Josh: So we started with disappointment and kind of a little bit of a heavy energy around your lower forehead, above your eyebrows, and then that softened and dissipated. And then whenever we track the movement of it, it went into your stomach, and then the emotional quality of that was peace.

Amy: Right.

Josh: So again, what I've noticed is time and time again, every negative emotion, my perception of a negative emotion is like a signpost. It's like telling me, "Hey, look at me, look at me, feel me, pay attention to me." And whenever I'm able to receive that invitation, it actually leads me to the opposite side of the coin, from the negative to the positive.

Amy: Isn't that cool? I think that's so neat. I get a reward if I just feel this thing that's trying to get my attention. And then there's a flip side to the coin, which for me was peace, which is so neat, right? Yeah, I love that. So would you say that the person has to identify what that feeling is attached to or why that feeling is being presented to them or why they're feeling it?

Josh: Yeah, I think the curiosity, being in the question, instead of trying to make it go away, I find that most of us want to make it go away or we want to replace it with something else and we want to have control over it. And that's kind of that posturing energy is I want to have control over this so that I have this experience and not this one. And yet in that form, we actually begin to create a subconscious patterning of attachment that actually reinforces the negative. And it actually begins to build that negative one up underneath our unconscious. And it builds and builds and builds until we give it attention.

Amy: Yeah.

Josh: So if you look at it, let's just say, like, posture is positive and collapse is negative, which I don't see them that way, but sweet spot is neutrality. And it's not that we're robots and we're not like, feeling. It's not neutral as in not feeling, but it's neutral in that at any given point, we're going to have positive and negative perceptions of ourselves, of others, of our environments, of our partners, of people we work with. And the more we can find that balance and not try to it's almost like even in the personal growth and kind of more spiritual kind of industries, what I've noticed is that we go so much for the good and the positive and try to avoid the negative that we actually end up bringing in all of this negative because we're standing so close to the light. The shadow is just cast. It so big. And really, we're supposed to be human and we're not supposed to be perfect and always just the light. We do have a lot of different aspects of self, and that's what I call being human.

Amy: I think when we start to look at those different aspects is when we get to have a different understanding of too, of how that aspect is posturing or collapsing and how they're showing up. Because I think that you can go on a roller coaster of this happening all throughout the day based on who you're showing up as in that particular moment with the other person or the experience or the situation. And it's just a fascinating thing and I think one of the good examples would be driving in your car and someone cuts you off. Are you collapsing? Are you posturing? Are you finding neutrality in the situation? And it's like it's such, like I think driving is such a character-building experience in itself.

Josh: It’s so true!

Amy: Well, it's really just an interesting experience, especially depending on where you live.

Josh: Do you posture or do you collapse?

Amy: It honestly depends on the moment. For me, when someone cuts me off or something happens, if I react in any different way than neutrality, I go, "What is happening? Why did I allow myself to react in that way?" And sometimes I realize I'm late, so I'm mad at myself for being late. Sometimes I'm angry because people are on their phones and text messaging and so that is just a safety concern of mine. It's just this thing that happens where it's like any reaction that you have, there's always deeper understanding on how you're reacting in that way and why you're acting in that way.

Josh: I love that example too. Thank you for bringing that. That's so great. And I think you're correct. The point is that it's not about not being angry or not being frustrated or not sad or disappointed or overwhelmed or whatever it is. It's really about being in choice of how we're going to be in relationship with it. And that's what I hear is like your first thing that comes up is like, "Wow, why am I in this?" And I think that curiosity gives a moment to just be like, "Oh, can I just let,.." There are some ways that someone texting on the phone and risking someone else's life can be a little you can get a little angry. And I think that's natural.

Amy: I do think it's healthy and creating safety for yourself.

Josh: And if we're in a posture position what can happen is we cycle in that for the rest of the day on some level.

Amy: And that's not healthy.

Josh: And it comes out in all these little ways to our kids or our partner or the people we're working with or the barista that was really just they were a little overwhelmed and then now you've helped them create a cycle where now they're in it. And it's literally this thing that once it gets going it's so easy for us to spin and make it about this situation and that and we actually self-prophesied from this one little moment of having some frustration and anger that was justified.

Amy: Absolutely. And then it just spirals out of control. Never any fun. I call those character-building days. Those are not fun to have. So if you can drop in and get curious when something does arise, then you can address it then and there and not take it out on everyone else throughout the day. And taking it on everybody else can show up as posturing and collapsing like you were talking about. To me, it's a fascinating behavior that we have the capability to do.

Josh: And I'd like to just also say that just as much as posturing and collapsing can create this cycle of burnout that just like we can get caught in and spin and spin and the circular. I know almost everyone probably listening to this call has had days where they're like, "I'm so sick of thinking about this thing and continuing and yet I'm still doing it. Why can't I let go of this?" But just as powerful, is the sweet spot. Once we begin to really allow ourselves to be frustrated or disappointed or whatever it is and hold that, "Oh, I'm just in a posturing or collapsing right now. Can I just let myself be there for a moment?" Then we'll naturally start to come back into sweet spot. And the power of that circular motion is so much stronger than the posture and collapse that it quickly takes hold. And any point that you're not in your sweet spot, it's just like, "Oh wow, I'm doing this." Just like what you were saying, "Why am I doing this?" And the question naturally comes up. The awareness naturally comes up and you know what I call the water you're swimming in. You can actually see that you're postured and that naturally gives you the ability to come back into that sweet spot and it just becomes stronger and stronger and stronger until there's really, what I believe, nothing that can throw off any of you like from your sweet spot.

Amy: And I like that you're calling it the sweet spot because I think that a lot of the spiritual community thinks that you have to be positive 100% of the time. And this spiritual bypassing it's just craziness. And I love how you're not saying to be positive because you're not. Like what you're doing is you're just finding where you are on a grounded position where you're not inflated or deflated, which I think is really important for people to understand and recognize. You don't have to be positive all the time. And it is okay to be mad. It is okay to be angry. What's not okay is if you sit in that anger all day every day because that's not healthy.
Josh: Well, you're kind of using it as an excuse. Yeah, it may be an unconscious excuse. You may not be doing it on purpose, but there is an excuse going on. It is kind of like, "Oh yeah, well, this person did this and I've had this kind of week. I'm just going to be pissed off."

Amy: That's where the victim comes in. It's hard because if you had something happen to you, it can be hard if it's a traumatic event. But what's not healthy if something happens to you and you continue to allow it to become your personality and that's where it's not healthy. And some of you guys might be listening and you have been angry for years or you've been depressed for years, I'm letting you know that it is okay to break up with that personality of yours and that aspect of you because it is no longer serving you whatsoever. And I think that that's really hard for people to admit because it becomes their identity. And I don't know about you, but when I was depressed, being depressed all the time was depressing, and it's kind of hard to get out of that cycle. But you have to see the glimmer of light. And I think that this sweet spot that Josh, you're talking about, allows you to just go, "Oh, I kind of feel some peace." And then you would get a little bit more, and then you get a little bit more, and then you get a little bit more, and you start ripping off that false identity that's no longer who you are. You no longer have to be that.

Josh: That exactly. I think that's so well said, and it's what actually has me. I get so touched, like, even hearing you say that. I'm having a little bit of tears come up in my eyes because I know that no one would choose these things. There's nothing inherently bad or wrong. They all come from very good places and good intentions and probably served really well at one time. And yet what I hear you is giving them permission to say, "Hey, if this isn't serving you any longer, let's not do this anymore." And you can choose to say no to this and choose a new identity. And I really do think that this hits on that identification level of even wanting to be seen in these ways and known in these ways and to have this type of lifestyle and be viewed in these ways. And so I think you're really hitting to the core of where these actually come from, and it's really just protection. We're just trying to manage and do our best and find our way. And that's why there's nothing wrong with posturing or collapsing. It's actually necessary. And if we're only in one or two at any given moment, then it's hard to really see but if we can see three points of posture collapse and sweet spot, all of a sudden, it opens up our ability to actually see and make choices that are different.

Amy: And how freeing is that? Like, super free. I love this. Josh, you have a special gift for our listeners. Tell them what that is, because I'm super excited for you guys to receive this if you're interested in it.

Josh: Yeah, well, for me, one, I am just loving this conversation, and I'm dedicated to this conversation. And what I know is you're one of the most phenomenal, amazing human beings I've ever encountered, Amy, and I know you know this. And also, I know that you bring in just incredible forward-thinking, like, outside of the box people that really want to make a difference in the world. And for me, just even having the opportunity to talk and share and be of service is just truly an honor. And I would like to extend if anyone that's listening would like, I'm wanting to offer a Change Your Burnout Paradigm strategy call. And so what this is all about is I'll talk about and teach the other four shifts, fundamental shifts that you'll need in order to start to turn this tide of this deadly burnout cycle. And then also we're going to talk about your exact burnout cycle. So we're going to identify your custom burnout cycle and then I'm going to give you and will help together identify the first two or three steps to coming out of that burnout cycle.

Amy: I love that. So if you guys are interested in doing this strategy call with Josh, there's a link in the show notes that you can click on and book a strategy call with him. And is it you and is your partner also doing the calls too?

Josh: I'll just be doing the calls, but I do have an amazing business partner.

Amy: Yeah, I wasn't sure. So, guys, Josh is amazing and he's really good at just holding space. And if you are a female out there, I think that working with men sometimes is helpful in healing any masculine wounds that we might have. And so if you're drawn to Josh, like, he is the most sensitive, kind human being and is able to hold space for women in such a very unique way, you also work with men, but as a female, I can offer this perspective. He works with men and women and it's just an incredible offer that you are gifting them. So thank you so much for doing that. What is one thing you want to share with everybody before we hop off?

Josh: Well, I just want to share how much this matters to me and how fun and enjoyable it is to period be in service in the ways that I am, but especially on this call. So I'm feeling a lot of gratitude for you, Amy, and you sharing your people with me and me with them. And I'm feeling honored and just loving that I get to do this. This is what I get to do.

Amy: This is so much fun thinking about when you're like, "I get to help people see their shifts, like literally see their shifts." And it's such an incredible thing to experience on both sides because as a coach, a mentor, a healer, I get to one see people shift, but I also get to be a part of that journey and shifting at the same time. And it's an incredible thing to witness and be a part of. And I'm just so happy you're here and I'm so happy that we got to have this conversation. I know that we've been wanting to talk about and do this for a while. So I hope you guys enjoyed the episode. Make sure you book the strategy call with Josh if this is something you're guided to do. And also please take care of yourself. You deserve to feel good and experience life in its fullest. Thank you, Josh, so much for showing up today.

Josh: Thank you for having me.

Amy: You're welcome. Guys, make sure you, like, subscribe, and share this episode. See you soon. Bye.

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